Thursday, March 4, 2010

Old Man: On “Made In America”

Let me preface this post by admitting that I am guilty of what I’ll be lambasting here. I won’t pretend to be above it or that I haven’t done it. So don’t hunt the blog looking for examples. I already know they’re there.

I will also preface this by saying that this post was inspired and informed by these posts:
SuFu
FNB

This post is about the cult (fetish might be a better description) of “Made in America” clothing that is trendy for “Americana” right now, and has always and probably always will be important to the trad guys. It is so trendy and so important, that many people will refuse to buy an article of clothing if it isn’t made in America. I am particularly reminded of an AAAT thread about the new Bean Signature line, where most posters expressed outrage at the idea of that line being made somewhere other than America. Another thread about the new Ranger mocs was filled with disappointment at their being made in El Salvador.

Some objections were more legitimate than others. For example, a few posters said that it makes no sense to exploit “Americana” and then make things elsewhere than America. But that excludes most Americana clothing (particularly the Japan-made pieces, though Japan seems to get a pass for some reason). And a piece of clothing doesn’t have to be made in America to look American. Aesthetics aren’t nationally exclusive.

But there were an outrageous number of posters who tried to use the argument that something that isn’t made in America necessarily has to be lower quality. And most didn’t (and don’t) make any kind of distinction in that accusation. What do they mean? Lower quality materials? Lower quality craftsmanship (quality of sewing, etc.)? Less skilled workers?

Lets take these one at a time.

Lower quality materials. How does the country of construction say anything about the materials? Most materials are obtained from different countries than the place they are assembled in. For instance, my RRL jeans were sewn in America, but the denim is from Japan. The thread is from somewhere else and the buttons are probably from somewhere else entirely. Materials have nothing to do with the country something is made in. LLBean would probably use the same materials if the Ranger mocs were made in America. Would that make them somehow magically better? Probably not.

Lower quality craftsmanship. As was pointed out in the SuFu post above, a sewing machine is a sewing machine, and thread is thread. Every country has access to the same sewing machines (to some extent). America doesn’t have inherently superior sewing machine to China, and most of the higher quality sewing machines are made in countries other than America.

Less skilled workers. This is really what it all boils down to. I won’t go so far as in the FNB post above, where the posters equate it to “subtle racism” (though I do think they have a point), but there is a logical fallacy in assuming that only workers in America are skilled enough to make your Americana or Trad clothes.

First of all, if you are basing your argument on nationality, you are not only displaying that subtle racism, but you are not thinking clearly. What if a Chinese person makes your clothes in America? Does that automatically mean that they are up to standards? What about an American making your clothes in China? Would that mean your MIC clothes are or aren’t good enough? They were made by an American, but they were made in another country. So which is the most important point? Nationality of the worker or geography of the factory? Do you see how this is a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation? Either answer to this question makes your point fall apart.

Secondly, does the nationality of a worker automatically equal skill? Is an American inherently better at sewing than a Chinese person or a person from El Salvador? How do you know the Bean shoe factory in Maine is filled with workers who know more about shoe making than the factory in El Salvador? Actually, I would venture to say that since many of the workers in factories in other countries were probably former sweat-shop workers, they probably have more skill and experience than the average American.

Like I and others said, a sewing machine is a sewing machine, raw materials are raw materials, and a talented seamster/ress is a talented seamster/ress. It doesn’t matter where any of these are or where any of them are from. Sure, they all add up to make a garment good or bad quality, but country of origin has nothing to do with it. America can make some pretty low quality clothing, just like other countries can, and other countries can make some fantastic quality clothing just like America can.


So, what is your reason for only wanting/buying clothing that is made in America? I suspect that it has nothing to do with quality (whether you think it does or not). I think it’s that we are a bunch of sentimental SOB’s who like looking at a tag that says “Made in America.” Let’s face it, we like looking at the past in our clothing choices, and Made in America points to that past that we enjoy looking to. Like I said, I am guilty of it to. But let’s not pretend that it has anything to do with quality. Because that is offensive to the merchants who sell these clothes and to those men and women who have made a living out of skillfully making this stuff.

31 comments:

Tommy V. said...

Conor,

I basically support all your arguments. This is a good post. Here is my take on it:

I think the nostalgic nature of the "Made in America" fetish is not just for the tag or perceived higher quality, but for the memory of America as a country that used to produce things.

While I was not alive for the transition from a goods-based economy to a service-based one, I understand and support the sentiment. While I don't buy exclusively American made products (pretty far from it actually), I will be proud of something that is made here.

I would prefer to support companies that make their goods here because it supports the vastly shrinking middle class of American workers.

-Tom

boatshoe said...

Very good post. What I find funny is that there will be one thread lamenting the demise of American manufacturing next to another one asking for a free shipping code for Land's End. Yeah, a lot of things aren't made in America anymore. But if they were, many of the complainers still wouldn't buy them.

Anonymous said...

Maybe I am missing the point and maybe it's partially because I am too lazy to read all the prior posts that you have referenced, but in general I'd argue that there a few flaws to your argument. In fact, there was a great article in the NY Times that talked about the move of manufacturing from the US to China and all that it has brought with it (http://runway.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/behind-the-scenes-the-product-specialist/). I don't have the time or energy to go point by point, but I'll try my best to do it in as brief a manner as possible. Made in China does not necessarily mean lesser quality items, however, it does connote the search for margins. Generally a company looking to squeeze margins is also looking to cut corners in other ways so often times this means less handwork, lower quality materials and overall subpar fit. I am not really into Americana as such and I am certainly far from racially motivated in my shopping, but I know a thing or two about wholesaling and production and I can definitely see why people would be partial to articles made in Europe and America...

David said...

You made all the right points. But I think it necessarily comes down to patriotism and the aim to support American manufacturing jobs. I don't care who makes my clothing, but if it came from an American company making clothing here, I know that they are providing important jobs.

Also, on a much larger scale, the more goods we buy from within our borders and export to other countries, and the less we import from other nations (especially Asian nations), our trade deficits shrink; which eases economic tension and allowing foreign countries to safely sell US Public Debt without increasing our economic risk and causing a panic that devalues the strength of the dollar in the international market, thus maintaining our trade strength and viability.

Conor said...

Tom: Thanks. I totally get your take. That's fine with me, as it doesn't have to do with any kind of quality issue.

Boatshoe: Yea, sometimes I think those FNB guys have them/us pegged real well.

Anon: Sure, but if a company is looking to cut corners they'll do it in America as much as they would in another country. In that case it's the country to blame and not the country in which it's made.

David: That's fine. If that's why you want to buy MIA stuff it's cool and your prerogative. But it has nothing to do with quality, and that was the main point of this admittedly dragging post.

Anonymous said...

I've considered the MiA mentality recently as well and agree with your premise that it isn't a quality argument - some people are just patriotic.

The approach I take to buying MiA goods is that, all other things held constant, a shirt or jacket or piece of furniture which was made in the US did not have to be transported as far to get to where I am.

Given two $50 shirts, if the materials cost is equal, that the remainder of the price: logistics and labor, would favor the logistics company if it had to be shipped halfway around the world, and would favor labor if it only had to be shipped across a few states. The more money that goes to the skilled craftsman/tailor the better, in my opinion. This is somewhat of an idealized view of how a business could approach it, but better business practices have to start somewhere.

longwing said...

My preference for "Made in America" probably has most to do with knowing that a few skilled craftsmen can continue to make a living doing this work in the US. I get all bummed out when I think that working at Costco is the only remaining way for many Americans to make a living. Secondly, I don't like paying top dollar for imported goods. The Bean Sig shoes are not top dollar so I won't mind buying those.

Old Trad said...

The days when "Made in U.S.A." implied quality materials and quality workmanship are long gone.

Nostalgia for the sake of nostalgia is meaningless.

David said...

It's not that long of a post. I think it was really well written and to the point. You dismantled the quality argument very well.

My point wasn't to say why I specifically would by MIA clothing, it was to say that I think that the argument for quality is a mask for my above argument dealing with patriotism and jobs. I think Longwing seconded that nicely as well.

Anonymous said...

Brad Bennett... paging Brad Bennett of "Commerce With A Conscience" would you please pick up a white courtesy phone and deposit your two cents...

Adam S. said...

Part of my argument for buying American usually rests upon lower variance in quality. Holding quality of materials constant and just thinking about the workers being paid meager wages compared to their American counterparts doesn't necessarily imply lower quality, but my experience has been quality control issues, which make shopping online sometimes problematic.

Anonymous said...

I was anon poster number one and I just wanted chime in again since nobody seems to have followed my link to the nytimes article. the article outlines a lot of problems with the outsourcing process that do affect the quality, fit and finish of the final product. so, yes we can all have the same sewing machines, but based on our ability to sew and our modes of manufacturing(Just in Time or Batch based) we have be producing items of varying quality. suffice it to say that yes holding all things equal made in america doesn't necessarily mean a better quality item. obviously getting labor at one tenth the price has it's advantages in trade. i won't get into the currency manipulation issue here, but stay on quality. i think inevitable when you pay top dollar for a item. I think the land's end crap should not figure in to this, because you just can't produce in an advanced industrialized country at those price points. however, once you move up market this becomes a sticking point.

As for American:
It at least to some people brings to mind a certain nostalgia for well made american goods. For these people I can imagine the idea it being manufactured elsewhere is blasphemy. for me its more a matter of US, Europe and even Japan vs. China. i think the entire organic, locavore, americana movement is premised on a certain authenticity, which is undermined by the idea of outsourcing. as for me i think the entire movement is just too ironic without the necessary humor. i mean a bunch of office dwelling creative types with advanced degrees running around in a luxury version of the every man's garb. talk about costume.

ScarletStreet said...

Easily the best post I have ever seen on your blog. I wish more people would take these delusional folks on. The trad board is as guilty of it as the kids on the Styleforum. I will admit to being into Made in the USA for sentimental reasons but I can admit it's purely a romantic thing. It blows my mind how some of these folks think it suddenly means their item is one of pure craftsmanship and worth insane pricing. (BoO etc.) Anyway, great post.

David M. said...

made in america means that americans are working.

Beardsley said...

It's a topic worth discussing, and you did a good job of looking at it, but I think you missed the forest while you were looking at all those trees.

David and David M. get it. Buying Made in America means you're supporting your fellow Americans, which means you're supporting America as a whole. This is a Good Thing.

I am not an anti-corporate anti-capitalism ideologue, but the reason we have so few manufacturing jobs left in the US is due to the greed of the managers of manufacturing companies (people, not corporations, are at fault). They lobbied Congress for "free" trade, etc. They knew they could make things for less abroad--of course wages in a Third World country are lower than wages here!--and could pass some of the savings on, thereby increasing both their per-unit profit and their market share. These managers and Congressmen selfishly looked at only one part of the picture, and completely ignored what the impact would be on the blue-collar worker.

Time was a typical blue-collar job--a manufacturing job--paid enough to buy a house and raise a family. Now those workers have to take service industry or customer support jobs, few of which pay as well as manufacturing, and so they can no longer afford homes or families. Instead of three or four kids in a modest house, now it's one or two kids in an apartment--not by choice but by economic necessity.

This is to say nothing about the economic ruin being visited upon us when we no longer make the things we need and use--but I'll leave that point for now.

I care more about Americans than I do about non-Americans for the same reason I care about my children more than I care about someone else's: they're part of my group, connected to me. This doesn't mean I'm indifferent to others; it's a matter of priorities. And that's also part of buying Made in America.

There's more, but that'll do for now.

Conor said...

To all (or most): thanks for taking the time to read at least some of this post and comment on it. I appreciate your feedback.

As David said, most of your arguments for MIA are the real heart of the quality argument. I don't mind the other arguments you guys are espousing, I just mind people using the quality argument.


Scarlet Street: Thanks, always nice to see you around here, especially when we are agreeing. BoO is ridiculous.

And I'd still like to know what music interests we share as I'm not huge in jazz and that's what I thought you were all about.

ScarletStreet said...

I love Jazz for sure but I grew up listening to blues, country, and folk. I also "sang" for a death metal band in my Florida youth. I have pretty diverse tastes. The music I was referring to specially was The Pogues and Iron and Wine (I think you have mentioned Sam Beam before). I'm a big fan of both and have been for some time.

Conor said...

Oh that's awesome. Yea I love Iron and Wine and the Pogues.

I also grew up in Florida. West Palm Beach. Glad to be out of there though. Too hot.

Beardsley said...

Just found this book on "free" trade: "Free Trade Doesn't Work: What Should Replace it and Why"
http://www.freetradedoesntwork.com/

Read the reviews at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Free-Trade-Doesnt-Work-Replace/dp/0578048205/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267824576&sr=1-2

Not a jazz fan. I enjoy classical music, and popular non-rock American music from the 30s through the 60s: Irving Berlin, the Gershwins, Cole Porter, and the like for composers, and Fred Astaire, Perry Como, Andy Williams, Herb Alpert, and the like for performers. I'm also starting to rediscover modern folk (i.e., popular with the people) songs and am sharing them with my children, songs like "You Are My Sunshine," "Zippity Do Dah," even "Yellow Submarine."

Oh! You were directing that comment at SS. Sorry!

ScarletStreet said...

I miss Florida, but not it's weather. The land (what's left of it) is still very special to me. My dad's side is one of the original cracker families, so it really is home for us. I grew up in the Ocala area, and got my degree just up the road at THE University of Florida.

Anonymous said...

Yet another anon here, and to further echo both Daves and Beardsley.

I work for a company that was sold and purchased, and have watched as manufacturing has been outsourced in return for margin. We're good at it and have made a fortune, however have also shed many living wage jobs. It's called lean manufacturing. Applied locally, it creates efficiency. Taken as a religion, soon you're globetrotting and squeezing turnips for blood in search of ever increasing margins.

In Beijing, the first thing that strikes you is seeing no cars older than five years, no signage old enough to have been bleached by UV, flawless interstate grade highways connecting to peasant cities carrying little if any traffic, and luxury hotels with hundreds of rooms and abundant staff yet operating quite happily with only a score of guests.

It's simple. Manufacturing creates jobs, wealth and infrastructure. Jobs and wealth allow for consumption; be it homes, clothing or cars. Infrastructure adds to the quality of life. Flipping burgers or cleaning carpets does neither.

We maintain excellent quality and worker safety. All with a labor cost so minor that for accounting purposes it's grouped with electrical usage. I fully understand the allure and addiction.

I'm just a boffin fortunate and clever enough to have maintained my job, thus unable to buck the latest fad in the Harvard Business Review. So I buy American when given the choice. Not for quality, nostalgia or creed, but my minor part in delaying our economic deforestation.

Orchid & Wasp said...

I agree with everything you've said here: apparel produced abroad is not necessarily of lower quality... just as apparel produced in the States is not necessarily of better quality.

But I feel that you have neglected to engage with the most compelling and legitimate reasons that people choose to buy American. Many people would like to keep manufacturing alive in a country that has strong laws in place to protect the health and living standards of their workers. Many others would like to cut down on the waste associated with shipping fibers, fabrics and finished garments all over the world before they reach them.

Of course, consumers need to look closely at what they're buying when they buy something that is made in the US. This doesn't mean that the garments are made from fabric woven or knitted here, much less from fibers that are grown/produced/processed/spun here. Nor does it mean that the US factories or mills employed necessarily follow the labor laws that they are subject to (sweatshops exist here, too). On a related note, I think "made in Japan" (or the UK, or selected European countries) get passes because many of the "buy American" types perceive their manufacturing sectors to be regulated under relatively progressive labor standards laws. On the whole, I agree: I would rather buy goods manufactured in a nation that, at the very least, enshrines its workers rights in law. That said, I am also willing to buy from factories anywhere that choose, regardless of what the state mandates, to uphold labor standards similar to those enshrined in law here. But that kind of information is just not available to most people trying to make ethical buying choices, and I think it's legitimate for people to decide to only buy products made in countries with strong labor standards laws, even if that isn't always a guarantee that it was produced according to those laws.

I just think it's important to clarify that, while there are ill-informed, xenophobic and blindly nostalgic motivations behind "buying American", the motivation cannot be reduced to those reasons.

I <3 your blog!!!

Spalding said...

I am an older guy, I have not bought a ready made suit in 20 years, I know my tailor, I attended his old bosses funeral,he attended my daughters babtism.

I spend 1500.00 2000.00 I know who gets the money, and the conditions of the man who makes my dress clothes. I would feel foolish buying a 1000.00 suit knowing the man, woman, child who made it got all of 3.00 dollars.

I was raised to look for the made in America, and the union made label. Unfortunately I would have to go naked if I held to these values now.

I will buy a pair of 300.00 shoes made in the US and feel less cheated than 300.00 shoes made in the 3rd world.

Beardsley said...

I take exception to Orchid & Wasp's comment about "xenophobia" and its alleged relation to buying something made in America.

First, I will allow that there may be a tiny number of people who buy for that reason, but let's get to the real issue here.

The antonym of "patriotism" is NOT "xenophobia." What we really have here is a repetition of the calumnious leftist meme that patriots, by definition, hate foreigners. It's part of their playbook to delegitimize the normal human affinity towards one's own people, however narrowly or broadly that may be defined.

So let's just drop that, shall we?

Anonymous said...

Have you ever been to a factory in China is the real question? The work force may be equally skilled but the conditions under which they work couldn't be more different. Add to that the environmental regulations in China (essentially none) and I think Made in America means a lot more than you give it credit for.

Beardsley said...

Let us also not forget what "free" trade means: it means that the law-abiding countries get shafted by the law-breaking ones. It is no coincidence that the US has lost 42,400 factories since 2001--the year that China entered the WTO. China not only engages in business and environmental practices we find immoral and unacceptable, they also peg their currency to the dollar at an artificially low level, meaning that Chinese goods are cheaper than they ought to be.

China also subsidizes its industries, both directly and indirectly, through a variety of means that end up making their products cheaper to produce than we could ever dream of.

So I call "BS" on the accusation that people buy American for "racist" reasons: there are any number of legitimate reasons--economic, patriotic, moral, or otherwise--to buy American and not buy Chinese, none of which have anything to do with race.

Food for thought here:
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_plight_of_american_manufacturing

Anonymous said...

I am a free trader with one glaring exception - I only wear clothing made in the USA, Canada, Peru and the EU. This is a personal choice I do not have to justify to anyone.

Alternately, my wife and I have only owned Volvos, BMWs and Saabs over the thirty years we have been married. Again these are choices we have freely made and have no compelling need to justify them to anybody.

The one prevalent but under-appreciated fact about the USA is that we have broad and diverse freedom of choice. This is one advantage about which we all should be proud. Freely celebrate and defend it for it may not endure forever.

Beardsley said...

Anonymous,

Why Peru?

I'm not asking for a justification; I'm just curious (as are others, I'm sure).

Conor,

In general, all that needs to be said about any one post is said within the first 50 comments. I'm not sure that anyone has anymore to say about this one, but congratulations for generating so much interest.

Beardsley said...

Anonymous,

Why Peru?

I'm not asking for a justification; I'm just curious (as are others, I'm sure).

Conor,

In general, all that needs to be said about any one post is said within the first 50 comments. I'm not sure that anyone has anymore to say about this one, but congratulations for generating so much interest.

Beardsley said...

Oops! Sorry about the double post. Consarned intarweb....

Luke said...

I suppose most peoples attraction to it , and this is somebody who lives in europe and tries to buy both european/american is the idea of sense of place in your clothing. The feel that it had an idealogy behind it, when you pay over the odds for goods then your paying yes for quality but also for something unique and special. Beyond that though , I agree with what people are saying as well about the idea that its a race to the bottom going to China, its not about the sourcing or where things could be made best but simply where they can be made cheapest and that leaves a bad aftertaste if you've dropped a weeks paycheck on some A.P.C's. Finally I would say that of course things can be made just as well and with a sense of place in China or anywhere else but Labour laws and standards are important to people myself included, and they are frequently flouted in 3rd party countries in terms of wages and conditions so its also a choice of conciesence.